Homer [The Illyad and the Odyssey]

Following Shiz's mention of Homer and the "Iambic pentameter', I decided to start a thread on Homer and his masterpiece...the least we can do to honour his genius, neh?

Hey Shiz, I know the Illyad and The Odyssey were wholly written in verses...but what's the 'iambic pentameter'?

aniambic pentameter...hmm...hang on *recalls the english classes she's never followed* .
answer: it's a foot which contains an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed one. the result is to give a beat- dee-dum - and this is what is called an iamb. pentameter is due to the fact that the verse has five iambs per line. it's a total of 10 syllables going dee-dum dee-dum dee-dum dee-dum dee-dum. like, for instance: 'if music be the food of love, play on' (shakespeare, twelfth night, act1 scene1, line 1).

now, just imagine the homer guy wrote the whole of his story in iambic pentameter...takes a hell lot of patience to do something like that.

my favourite character, in both stories, is Ulysse. god, this guy is one of the persons who deserves my respect...

Thanks for the explanation Shiz!

Achilles and Hector are my favourites in the Illyad. Too bad these 2 great heroes died...and very foolishly, speaking of Achilles... However, I was more impressed by the Olympians' actions during the war

Although I think highly of the Odyssey, I don't like Odysseus. He's been quite stupid during his trip home: like not telling his crew of the bag containing the winds. Result: his men thought he was hiding some treasure from them and opened the bag while he was sleeping...and bye-bye Ithaca~~~ As a leader, he should have explained the importance of the bag to his men, instead of keeping them in ignorance.

oh, but such silly mistakes occur to all great men...anyway, Achilles was gay...but, yes, Hector is something close to extraordinary. i don't know why but i personally found the film 'Troy' quite pathetic and not as 'wow' as many of these incultes claimed it to be!! it was way too centred on Achilles and not enough on the others. Where was Cassandra in all that? can't recall if she was in the film...

I definitely agree with you Shiz! (Si ça continue, on va finir par fusioner ) The movie was awesomely poor and lame! Que dis-je! C'etait totalement fade! And all the girls at school were like "OOhh t'as vu Brad Pitt? Il est troop beeaauuu dans le film!" et patati et patata...pfff...minable...
Cassandra did make a short apparition in the film...

Ah well, Achilles was the hero of the Illyad after all...just like Odysseus is the hero of the Odyssey...
And I don't think Achilles was gay Remember how he wouldn't let Briseis go?

that's in the film...the thing is i read in a simplified version that he had been raised with girls and that his orientation (like many of the others of that time) was bi.....like i think he was in love with some woman but his cousin in the film (dang!! forgot his name...there goes my memory again) was in fact his friend and lover....

The name you're looking for is Patroclus... Indeed...In those times Greeks/Italians/surrounding regions didn't mind sex or whatever with the same sex... Even the gods were bisexual...comme quoi, l'exemple vient d'en haut...

I was browsing through the topics in the forum and came across this one. I just couldn't stop myself from replying.
The Iliad is one of my favourite poems and I agree with you that the film although technically impressive was not in-keeping with the actual story.
But, Shiz, I saw that you used the terms 'guy' and ' wrote'. I think that in order to really appreciate the poem you have to know two things.
Firstly, there is no concrete evidence that Homer actually existed. Traditional beliefs depict him as an old blind man. Some scholars think that 'Homer' could mean the society called 'Homerai'. However, as the writing seems to be that of a single nature, Homer is taken as a person and the sole author.
Then, to say that Homer 'wrote' is incomplete. It is universally accepted that The Iliad is the result of what is called oral tradition. This means that Homer used to sing or tell the story. Over the years, every time he retold it, he improvised and improved his work. The style which includes adding epithets to describe Gods, Heroes and other people can only be found in oral poetry. It is only later that he wrote it or made someone else write it as he spoke( the latter hypothesis is if you consider the blindness factor).
Now, I think that is really extraordinary!!!

Oh, jedi girl knows her stuff! Goog good! =)
Only 3 members have posted here since this thread started...maybe I should start a campaign to promote ancient Greece and myths...

aye...i agree...i mean, it's almost inhuman to lack fascination for the Illiad and the Odyssey...
and, thanks a hell lot for the explanation Jed!! that was cool~~what you are actually saying is most likely...i mean, the fact that the story was first told (or sung...whichever, it's still oral, isn't it?) is more lkely to be true~~uh...i don't think that at that time people did bother a lot about writing things down...that is a 'recent' invention. umm.....this requires refletion~~
Homerai?...now, this demands some discussion~~well, as you said, if the writing seems to be of a single nature, it is most likely that Homer was a single person...but still, something that big can't be ignored...Jed, do you have any archeological proof about that...uh....society? i mean, have archeologists found anything about it?...or is it mere assumptions?

Another possibility: The Illyad and Odyssey have been compiled by a man or a group called Homer. He or it might have taken all the songs and poems, then regrouped the whole thing to create a rich and updated story.

As for proof of Homer's (the individual) existence, time has erased this path, so no one knows for sure.

It is generally agreed that Homer was a person. I believe that too. But there are very few scholars that think it 'Homer' could refer to "Homerai' or to a similar society. Then again, there are no proofs that Homer existed or that a group of people might be the authors of the poems. There is still a lot of debate on the issue.
I mentionned both possibilities earlier as I think it is always good to know all the possibilities how infinitesimal they might be.
Nataku your possibility that Homer worked on the poems over a long period of time is what most scholars agree on!